-
Ottawa, Canada
(12:19): background knowledge: the Germain railway company is named
Deutsche Bundesbahn, the French one is SNCF. Since the trip goes from
Paris to Munich, I try the SNCF homepage.
Infer address: www.sncf.fr, which exists and appears official.
(12:20): browse from homepage to http://www.sncf.fr/voy/index.htm
(12:20): browse on to http://voyages.sncf.fr// and then to
http://voyages.sncf.fr:8080/sncf/affichage_formulaire_saisie_FR_aller
('Horaire et prix')
This gives a form where I fill in 'Paris', 'Munich' and the desired
arrival time of about 06:30.
(12:26 - rather low bit rate - I hope their trains go faster): After
browsing through pages of schedules, I decide that the train that leaves
Paris at 22:29 and arrives in Munich at 08:49 is the one I'd want to
take.
(12:34): request price of a double accomodation ticket
Chose a wrong option, want to step back one page but then I'm warned
that I'm not allowed to do that!! Have to re-issue the request. (12:40).
This is going to take long...
(12:43): I'm asked what 'tarif' I need - I assume full price (plein
tarif). Price comes down to FF 1311. case closed. (12:45)
Place: Dublin, Ireland
Date: June 11th 1998
Time: 3:00pm (local time)
Started search using Fusion
Query: overnight train paris munich
Clicked on #10 "Europe / Getting Around"
Followed link to Rail Europe [http://www.raileurope.com/us/]
Filled in ticket information form, got the following price:
Double 1st/2nd class sleeper fare (Paris - Munich): $84 - $104
Place: Aberdeen, Scotland
Date: 12. June 1998
Time: 2:30PM (local time)
searched through yahoo for travel in europe. Ended up on
millenium celebration page!
tried again. found page on rail travel. travel was in specific
countries only. No information found for travel to Paris to
Munich
Iowa City, Iowa, USA
8 hours for 10 queries over 2 afternoons
o For this query I added the word Eurorail beacuse I know that it is
the name of the rail company in Europe.
o Submit Altavista the query: +Eurorail +tickets +Paris +Munich
o Check 5th hit. Nothing there.
o Check 8th which is a pointer to the yellow pages
(http://bau.cba.uh.edu/ylowpges/yt.html)
o Find Eurorail and click on that link
o click on the link "Traveling Europe by Eurail"
o Click on point to point tickets. and write the name of the cities
(Paris, Munich).
o The page returns the following:
From Paris to Munich, one-way in either direction.
First Class Second Class Hours Via
$199.00 $135.00 8.50
Stuttgart-Karlsruhe/Offenburg-Kehl-Nancy-(Paris Gare de l'Es
o Go back to "Traveling Europe by Eurail"
o Click on Seat and Sleeper reservations. The following information
was found there:
Reservations for sleeping berths or couchettes are
required. Single compartment sleepers are all
in first class and cost approximately $150 to $200 in
addition to the cost of first class passes or
first class tickets. Double berth compartments, consisting of
an upper and lower berth, could be
in either first or second class depending upon the services
of the particular train. The cost per
person in a double compartment averages $90 to $105 in
addition to the cost of the pass or
ticket
o So the cost for this travel should be between $225 to $340 per
person. (using second class tickets)
Tokyo, Japan
June 12nd, 1998 Local time
By default, search on Altavista
2:15 pm
(I am french !!)
query : sncf.fr
clicked on 1 :
4. SNCF - Accueil
[URL: www.sncf.fr/]
voyage,
horaires, prix, services
horaires et prix
http://voyages.sncf.fr:8080/sncf/suite_choix_tarif
Result : 1311 frf ou $227
Using a custom front-end tool AltaGCL
Waterloo, 15 June 17:26
altagcl sleeper double paris munich
hmmm. http://www.traveldiscounts.com/discount/rail/railptp.html
has munich to paris, but paris to munich is missing ...
... oh they are to/from from/to fares ... found this for sure from
another version:
http://www.007travel.com/007farestimes.html
Waterloo, Canada
Using a custom front-end tool AltaGCL
June 16, 00:40am
query: "paris" and "munich" and "sleeper" and "ticket*"
http://www.007travel.com/007farestimes.html
time: 1 minute
Using Fusion2 - a
metasearch engine with marking of relevant documents and query
expansion.
Place: Dublin - home internet connection
Date: 14 June, evening
For this I don't think I need a sebsearch as I guess the info is
somewhere on www.sncf.fr, given train is originating in Paris.
Go to www.sncf.fr then go to English-language version, click link for
passengers, then follow link to "International timetables and prices"
then link to "Planning the journey: Tickets and prices" which loads
a forms page, then I choose the Java version which (eventually) loads a
Java pop-up window into which I select Paris - Munich and I get a message
saying "no trains running at that date/time !" so I change the date to
tomorrow (as it is currently Sunday evening) and I get a listing of
3 trains ... I choose the one leaving 22:29 and I get another window
offereing seat prices so I choose 2nd class couchette, 2 adults and
then I click "all fares" and that asks me what type of fare I want,
plein tarif, billet carte 12-25, etc., so I choose plein tarif and then
I click "proces" and I get the price 1480FF for 2 adults on that train.
In summary, the difficulty was navigating through SNCF website, not finding
the information.
Total time taken for search: 13 minutes.
At a university in Glasgow, Scotland
This was easy since I used this web site for my travells in Italy and France.
search train Europe with yahoo
http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/rail_index.htm
link to fares and schedules:
link to http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/fares_schedules/rfs_intro.htm
where after typing the details of the search we ended up in:
http://www.raileurope.com/cgi-bin/fscgi.pl?F=Paris&T=Munich&C=US&M=6&D=15&Y=1998&submit.x=58&submit.y=10
where:
From
First class fare $204.00
Second class fare $140.00
Average travel time 8 hours, 45 minutes
Distance 923 km / 576 miles
Sleeper Fares:
Triple 2nd Cl $58.00 to $78.00
Sgl/Spl 1st Cl $185.00 to $205.00
Dbl 1st/2nd Cl $84.00 to $104.00
So the Answer is 140$ +84$ = 224$
Australia
Using a query re-formulation tool, the Hyperindex Browser (HiB)
HiB + AltaVista
o entered "paris" and selected and beamed down using the
refinement "paris subway"
Thought that I might also get a link to train info - dead end
o then beamed down using the refinement "paris hfr"
Thought it might be train related - dead end
o then beamed down using the refinement "paris and GARPE"
Thought that "GAR" might be train related (a la Gar du nord)-
dead end
o then beamed down using "paris city guide"
The 4th document summary titled "Paris, city-guide, hotel in paris"
looked as if it might lead to general tourist information. Selected
"information" from this page which led to railway information which
had a link to the SCNF site which gives timetables and prices: a
double couchette costs 1480FRF. There was no price available for
double only.
http://voyages.sncf.fr:8080/sncf/suite_utilisateur_inconnu
At a university in Toronto, Canada
Guessing URL www.eurorail.com
Clicking on "Train Travel Europe"
Clicking on "Comprehensive European Train Schedules!"
Initial page for a database of train schedules, including
a search system.
Clicking on "European Rail Schedules."
Form for searching train schedules.
From: Paris
To: Munchen
Date: 8/8/98
Time: 18:00
"Munchen" spelling suggested by list of european city name spellings.
Date and time are arbitrary.
Clicking on "Search Schedule/Connection"
It appears not to have understood my date format, and instead
gave me the schedule for tomorrow. There's a train leaving
Paris at 22:29, arriving Munich at 8:49.
Clicking on "Details"
Unfortunately: "Pricing information not available."
Backing up a few levels to look around for prices.
Here's some information on pricing, but it mostly appears to be
package deals, etc.
Clicking on "Trains at night: Sleepers, Couchettes and Sleepettes"
Includes a table of sleeping car supplements. The supplement
ranges from US$12 to US$212 depending on the region of travel,
the size of compartment, the class of your ticket and other
factors that are not described on the page.
A price quote could be obtained at 1-800-660-5308, but I'll look
elsewhere for an on-line quote.
Webcrawler query: European train fares
Clicking on #12: "European Rail Passes"
Prices on different Eurorail travel packages plus reservation information.
http://www.vrsource.com/eurorail.htm (Infoseek)
There's a 5-day first-class Euro Pass available for US$280.
Clicking on #16: "*** Gin's Vacation Planner***"
"Swiss Federal Railways" services Switzerland and European train
travel with timetables and other relevant information An especially
helpful site can be found at "European Rail Travel" which includes:
railway service for a comprehensive listing of European countries...
http://members.aol.com/GinetteCT/getthere.htm (WebCrawler)
Contains passenger rail links.
For those who are European-bound, "Eurostar Internet" consists of :
- timetables
- fares
Clicking on "Eurostar Internet".
(www.eurostar.com)
No DNS entry.
An especially helpful site can be found at "European Rail Travel"
Clicking on "European Rail Travel"
Network error: Unable to connect to server.
Metacrawler search: Eurostar Fares
Clicking on #2: "Eurostar Fares"
Eurostar Fares. London / Paris Fares. London / Brussels. The Eurostar
management decided their service was most comparable to air transportation
in speed..
http://www.starnetinc.com/eurorail/eurorail/eustrfar.htm (AltaVista)
Network error: Unable to connect to server.
Clicking on #1: "INFOHUB Train"
Long list of links related to train travel.
Clicking on "European Railways information - the MERCURIO server"
Links related to european train travel.
Clicking on "Links to European National Railways and Timetables".
Clicking on "EUR" link.
Page in German.
Clicking on "English" link.
Clicking on "Current Timetable".
And I'm back to the search page that I found earlier, which
wouldn't give me fare information. Maybe if I try a different
date and time...
Still no "pricing information".
I'm giving up on this. Call a travel agent.
At another university in Glasgow, Scotland
Visit: Muscat EuroFerret
Select: "March most of the words" option
Query:Paris Munich train fares
Checked #1 (http://www.jena.de/tourism/verkanbe.htm)
Went back to query box.
Select: "Match all words" option
Query: Paris Munich train
Checked two pages of results. But no clicks.
Selected: "Any-Country" WWW server results only
Query: French railways
Clicked #2 (http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/misc/link/frlink.html)
Choose to click from the page the link to "The official SNCF
WWW server" (http://www.sncf.fr/) Clicks on the British flag for English
language version of the
WWW page.
Clicks on "Passenger" (http://www.sncf.fr/voy/indexe.htm) Clicks France and
International: timetables, prices and services
(http://voyages.sncf.fr:8080/voyages_gb/acgb_accueil.html)
Clicks on "Timetables and Fares"
(http://voyages.sncf.fr:8080/sncf/affichage_formulaire_saisie_GB_aller)
Fills in the forms for "Leaving PARIS-75 on Friday 12 June 1998 at about
22:30"
Clicks on journey "1"
Chooses to wish in "Double" and "2 Adult passengers"
Chooses "Plein Tarif". Clicks on "Price"
Answer: 2622 FF or 454 USD
Elsewhere in Ottawa, Canada, using AltaVista ...
ANSWER: 22:29 08:49 261-TRN MUNICH Arrives next day
Sleeper Fares
Triple 2nd Cl $58.00 to $78.00
Sgl/Spl 1st Cl $185.00 to $205.00
Dbl 1st/2nd Cl $84.00 to $104.00
Queries: 14
Links: ~30
Time: 40 minutes
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Query: train ticket sleeper "double occupancy" Paris Munich overnight
Nothing useful
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Query: train ticket sleeper "double occupancy" +Paris +Munich overnight
Followed: "Munich getting there and getting around"
http://www.frommers.com/destinations/munich/gettingthereandgettingaround.html
Found out: travel time to Paris is 9 hours
"The Central Train Station ("Hauptbahnhof") is in
the very center of the city."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Query: "central train station" hauptbahnhof ticket sleeper "double occupancy" +Paris +Munich overnight
apparently bad hits
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Query: "central train station" hauptbahnhof
Followed: http://www.edgar-online.de/byplotr.htm (broken link)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Query: hauptbahnhof
not city specific
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Query: hauptbahnhof munich
not specific enough
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Query: hauptbahnhof munich paris
Followed: http://www.munich-online.de/portrait/p_hauptbahnhof_de.html
Somehow it seems it would be easier if I read German
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Query: same as last but English only
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Query: train munich paris
Followed: http://www.ehi.com/travel/ehi/germany/munits.html
-> http://www.ehi.com/
-> http://www.ehi.com/europe.html
-> http://www.ehi.com/travel/ehi/france/france.html
-> http://www.ehi.com/travel/ehi/france/paris.html
-> http://www.ehi.com/travel/ehi/france/parits.html
Found fares from Munich to German cities and Vienna
Found fares from Paris to London, Amsterdam, Brussels and Geneva
Back out to last query
Followed: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/ringberg-castle/train.html (too specific train fares)
Followed: http://159.77.8.2/conference/garmisch/gartrain.htm (dead link)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Query: train munich +paris
Strategy: not much mention of Paris
Query: train munich paris schedule fare
Followed: http://unr.edu/homepage/ssa/europe.html
not specific enough
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Query: +train munich "double occupancy" paris
Strategy: need to learn more about the types of words to add
Scan the top 30 hits for related words
A few clicks to follow hits to see if they were relevant (I didn't count them)
Followed: http://www.leo.org/muenchen/city/mvv/trains.html
Followed: http://www.munichfound.de/SITES/VisitorsGuide/GettingAround.html
-> http://www.munich-tourist.de/
-> http://www.munich-tourist.de/english/m.htm
-> http://www.munich-tourist.de/english/m4.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Query: +train sleeper "double occupancy" paris
Not much about paris again
Query: +train "double occupancy" +paris +munich +berlin +brussels
Followed: http://www.ricksteves.com/services/697fares.htm
Many city pairs first and second class fares, but not what we want
Followed: http://home.wxs.nl/~grijns/traintickets/eurptp.html
Many fares and travel times but not what we want
Followed:
Followed:
-> http://www.raileurope.com/us/
-> http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/rail_index.htm
-> http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/fares_schedules/rfs_intro.htm
-> Fill in form Paris->Munich in US dollars
22:29 08:49 261-TRN MUNICH Arrives next day
Sleeper Fares
Triple 2nd Cl $58.00 to $78.00
Sgl/Spl 1st Cl $185.00 to $205.00
Dbl 1st/2nd Cl $84.00 to $104.00
France
Metacrawler: train ticket Paris Munich
--> 29 results.
--> 9th "Train & Subway Links" seems promising
http://www.casto.com/resource/trains.cfm
Page contains a long list of train schedule resources. My first choice
is a broken link.
The second: "Rail Europe" seems promising.
http://www.raileurope.com/us/
This is a server giving all kinds of travel information for europe. I
choose the second link "Rail":
http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/rail_index.htm
On this page I klick on "fares and schedules".
http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/fares_schedules/rfs_intro.htm
This page contains a form where I enter Paris and Munich:
http://www.raileurope.com/cgi-bin/fscgi.pl?F=Paris&T=Munich&C=US&M=6&D=15&Y=1998&submit.x=49&submit.y=12
VOILA!
Daily Train at 22:29 from Paris
First class fare $204.00
Second class fare $140.00
Additional fee for douple sleeper:
Second: $84 First: $104
So the result is
First: $308 Second: $224
(5 minutes)
Another searcher in France
Used the french train reservation web site:
http://www.sncf.fr and followed the link
got the price 740 Frs (usd 127)
Another Australian searcher...
[8:40am Aus EST]
Try an Excite search:
-=> (item 5) "European Rail-Trains"
has the right sort of information, but not the right detail
Try Excite "more like this":
-=> "R A I L . O R G - Eurail Information"
Not much that's useful. Near the bottom:
-=> "Eurail Passes"
Ah. A link to
-=> "search for your own point-to-point tickets."
A form query: "Departure City/Arrival City".
That tells me from Paris to Munich, one-way is
First Class: $199.00, Second Class: $135.00.
But what about overnight? Sleepers?
<=- Back
-=> European Rail Maps [new window] -=> [idly inspect maps]
-=> "Deutcshe Bahn"
-=> "Current Timetable" (new window)
Forms interface: Enter Paris/Munich,
-=> "Means of Transport"
Select train connections only, direct sleepers only.
-=> "Search Connection"
-=> "Order Tickets"
Ooops. Need to select a trip.
-=> "Order Tickets"
Won't let me!
"19.06.98: Unfortunately, the time
remaining until the travel starting
isn't sufficient for a punctual
delivery of your tickets"
<=-
<=-
<=-
Forms interface: Enter Paris/Munich, 30.06.98
-=> "Means of Transport"
Select train connections only, direct sleepers only.
-=> "Search Connection"
-=> "Order Tickets"
-=> "Accept connection"
Hmmph. They won't tell me how much the tickets
cost without ordering with a credit card. No way!
-=> "Our homepage" German! -=> English
-=> "International Guests"
[-=>...-=>] Takes me back to the useless
Current Timetable
Try an Altavista power search "train and cost",
ranked on "Paris Munich sleeper overnight":
-=> " 1. Overnight accommodations on European Trains"
Ok. That tells me that the per person extra cost for
a double sleeper in a Central region trip is US$63--70,
plus a pass or (link:) 1st class ticket
I guess, the cost will be about US$270 (1st class) or US$205
(2nd class).
[9:15am, Aus. EST]
Saarbrucken, Germany
22 June 1998, 19:20-21:20 p.m.
I decide not to check the German rail service bahn.hafas.de, since
they don't give prices for international trains.
Alta Vista: sncf Schlafwagen Paris Munchen prix couchette wagon-lit wagon-lits Preis
- first ten results don't look promising
Alta Vista: sleeper car Munich Paris
- first ten results don't look good
I resist the tempatation to ring up the train station
I check the Swiss railroads (www.sbb.ch) because I believe them to be more international
I follow the link to price and timetable information
I get timetables, but no prices
I try the French railways (www.sncf.fr)
- follow the link "voyages"
- follow the link "horaries, prix, services ..."
- I follow the link "Horaires et Prix"
- I fill in the form
- I get a timetable listing, but no price.
Then I notice the words "Choisissez votre train pour obtenir le prix"
and a tiny clickable "1" in front of the train connection, which I click
- I fill in the next form, asking for a T2 with two persons and click
on the link "tous tarifs"
- I fill in the next form, asking for "PLEIN TARIF" and click on the
link "Prix"
- I get a price of 2622 FRF for two persons one way
