Q6: What is the cost of overnight train tickets, including sleeper accommodations (double occupancy) from Paris to Munich?

  1. Ottawa, Canada
    (12:19): background knowledge: the Germain railway company is named
    Deutsche Bundesbahn, the French one is SNCF. Since the trip goes from
    Paris to Munich, I try the SNCF homepage.
    Infer address: www.sncf.fr, which exists and appears official.
    (12:20): browse from homepage to http://www.sncf.fr/voy/index.htm
    (12:20): browse on to http://voyages.sncf.fr// and then to 
    ('Horaire et prix')
    This gives a form where I fill in 'Paris', 'Munich' and the desired
    arrival time of about 06:30. 
    (12:26 - rather low bit rate - I hope their trains go faster): After
    browsing through pages of schedules, I decide that the train that leaves
    Paris at 22:29 and arrives in Munich at 08:49 is the one I'd want to
    (12:34): request price of a double accomodation ticket
    Chose a wrong option, want to step back one page but then I'm warned
    that I'm not allowed to do that!! Have to re-issue the request. (12:40).
    This is going to take long...
    (12:43): I'm asked what 'tarif' I need - I assume full price (plein
    tarif). Price comes down to FF 1311. case closed. (12:45)

  2. Place: Dublin, Ireland
    Date: June 11th 1998
    Time: 3:00pm (local time)
    Started search using Fusion
    Query: overnight train paris munich
    Clicked on #10 "Europe / Getting Around"
        Followed link to Rail Europe [http://www.raileurope.com/us/]
        Filled in ticket information form, got the following price:
        Double 1st/2nd class sleeper fare (Paris - Munich): $84 - $104

  3. Place: Aberdeen, Scotland
    Date:  12. June 1998
    Time: 2:30PM (local time)
    searched through yahoo for travel in europe.  Ended up on 
    millenium celebration page!
    tried again.  found page on rail travel.  travel was in specific 
    countries only.  No information found for travel to Paris to 

  4. Iowa City, Iowa, USA
    8 hours for 10 queries over 2 afternoons
            o For this query I added the word Eurorail beacuse I know that it is
              the name of the rail company in Europe.
            o Submit Altavista the query: +Eurorail +tickets +Paris +Munich
            o Check 5th hit. Nothing there.
            o Check 8th which is a pointer to the yellow pages
            o Find Eurorail and click on that link
            o click on the link "Traveling Europe by Eurail"
            o Click on point to point tickets. and write the name of the cities
              (Paris, Munich).
            o The  page returns the following:
                     From Paris to Munich, one-way in either direction.
                   First Class  Second Class     Hours     Via
                     $199.00      $135.00        8.50
              Stuttgart-Karlsruhe/Offenburg-Kehl-Nancy-(Paris Gare de l'Es
            o Go back to "Traveling Europe by Eurail"
            o Click on Seat and Sleeper reservations. The following information
              was found there:
                         Reservations for sleeping berths or couchettes are
         required. Single compartment sleepers are all
                   in first class and cost approximately $150 to $200 in
              addition to the cost of first class passes or
                   first class tickets. Double berth compartments, consisting of
              an upper and lower berth, could be
                   in either first or second class depending upon the services
              of the particular train. The cost per
                   person in a double compartment averages $90 to $105 in
              addition to the cost of the pass or
            o So the cost for this travel should be between $225 to $340 per
              person. (using second class tickets)

  5. Tokyo, Japan
    June 12nd, 1998 Local time
    By default, search on Altavista
       2:15 pm
       (I am french !!)
       query : sncf.fr
       clicked on 1 :
                                     4. SNCF - Accueil
                                           [URL: www.sncf.fr/]
                                     horaires, prix, services
                                     horaires et prix
       Result : 1311 frf ou $227

  6. Using a custom front-end tool AltaGCL
    Waterloo, 15 June 17:26
        altagcl sleeper double paris munich
    hmmm.  http://www.traveldiscounts.com/discount/rail/railptp.html
    has munich to paris, but paris to munich is missing ...
       ... oh they are to/from  from/to fares  ... found this for sure from
    another version:

  7. Waterloo, Canada
    Using a custom front-end tool AltaGCL
    June 16, 00:40am
        query: "paris" and "munich" and "sleeper" and "ticket*"
        time: 1 minute

  8. Using Fusion2 - a
    metasearch engine with marking of relevant documents and query
    Place: Dublin - home internet connection
    Date: 14 June, evening
    For this I don't think I need a sebsearch as I guess the info is
    somewhere on www.sncf.fr, given train is originating in Paris.
    Go to www.sncf.fr then go to English-language version, click link for 
    passengers, then  follow link to "International timetables and prices"
    then link to "Planning the journey: Tickets and prices" which loads
    a forms page, then I choose the Java version which (eventually) loads a 
    Java pop-up window into which I select Paris - Munich and I get a message
    saying "no trains running at that date/time !" so I change the date to
    tomorrow (as it is currently Sunday evening) and I get a listing of
    3 trains ... I choose the one leaving 22:29 and I get another window
    offereing seat prices so I choose 2nd class couchette, 2 adults and
    then I click "all fares" and that asks me what type of fare I want,
    plein tarif, billet carte 12-25, etc., so I choose plein tarif and then 
    I click "proces"  and I get the price 1480FF for 2 adults on that train.
    In summary, the difficulty was navigating through SNCF website, not finding
    the information.
    Total time taken for search: 13 minutes.

  9. At a university in Glasgow, Scotland
    This was easy since I used this web site for my travells in Italy and France.
    search train Europe with yahoo
    link to fares and schedules:
    link to http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/fares_schedules/rfs_intro.htm
    where after typing the details of the search we ended up in:
                        First class fare 			$204.00
                        Second class fare		$140.00
                        Average travel time   		8 hours, 45 minutes
                        Distance			923 km / 576 miles
     Sleeper Fares:
                        Triple 2nd Cl			$58.00 to $78.00
                        Sgl/Spl 1st Cl			$185.00 to $205.00
                        Dbl 1st/2nd Cl			$84.00 to $104.00
    So the Answer is 140$ +84$ = 224$

  10. Australia
    Using a query re-formulation tool, the Hyperindex Browser (HiB)
            HiB + AltaVista
            o entered "paris" and selected and beamed down using the
              refinement "paris subway" 
              Thought that I might also get a link to train info - dead end
            o then beamed down using the refinement "paris hfr" 
              Thought it might be train related - dead end
            o then beamed down using the refinement "paris and GARPE" 
              Thought that "GAR" might be train related (a la Gar du nord)- 
    	  dead end
            o then beamed down using "paris city guide" 
              The 4th document summary  titled "Paris, city-guide, hotel in paris" 
              looked as if it might lead to general tourist information. Selected
              "information" from this page which led to railway information which
              had a link to the SCNF site which gives timetables and prices: a
    	  double couchette costs 1480FRF.  There was no price available for
    	  double only.

  11. At a university in Toronto, Canada
      Guessing URL www.eurorail.com
        Clicking on "Train Travel Europe"
          Clicking on "Comprehensive European Train Schedules!"
    	Initial page for a database of train schedules, including
    	a search system.
    	Clicking on "European Rail Schedules."
    	  Form for searching train schedules.
    	    From: Paris
    	      To: Munchen
    	    Date: 8/8/98
    	    Time: 18:00
    	  "Munchen" spelling suggested by list of european city name spellings.
    	  Date and time are arbitrary.
    	  Clicking on "Search Schedule/Connection"
    	    It appears not to have understood my date format, and instead
    	    gave me the schedule for tomorrow.  There's a train leaving
    	    Paris at 22:29, arriving Munich at 8:49.
    	    Clicking on "Details"
    	      Unfortunately: "Pricing information not available."
    	      Backing up a few levels to look around for prices.
          Here's some information on pricing, but it mostly appears to be
          package deals, etc.
          Clicking on "Trains at night: Sleepers, Couchettes and Sleepettes"
    	Includes a table of sleeping car supplements.  The supplement
    	ranges from US$12 to US$212 depending on the region of travel,
    	the size of compartment, the class of your ticket and other
    	factors that are not described on the page.
        A price quote could be obtained at 1-800-660-5308, but I'll look
        elsewhere for an on-line quote.
      Webcrawler query: European train fares
      Clicking on #12: "European Rail Passes"
        Prices on different Eurorail travel packages plus reservation information.
        http://www.vrsource.com/eurorail.htm (Infoseek)
        There's a 5-day first-class Euro Pass available for US$280.
      Clicking on #16: "*** Gin's Vacation Planner***"
        "Swiss Federal Railways" services Switzerland and European train
        travel with timetables and other relevant information An especially
        helpful site can be found at "European Rail Travel" which includes:
        railway service for a comprehensive listing of European countries...
          http://members.aol.com/GinetteCT/getthere.htm (WebCrawler) 
        Contains passenger rail links.
          For those who are European-bound, "Eurostar Internet" consists of :
    	- timetables 
    	- fares 
        Clicking on "Eurostar Internet".
          No DNS entry.
          An especially helpful site can be found at "European Rail Travel"
        Clicking on "European Rail Travel"
          Network error: Unable to connect to server.
      Metacrawler search: Eurostar Fares
      Clicking on #2: "Eurostar Fares"
        Eurostar Fares. London / Paris Fares. London / Brussels. The Eurostar
        management decided their service was most comparable to air transportation
        in speed..
        http://www.starnetinc.com/eurorail/eurorail/eustrfar.htm (AltaVista) 
          Network error: Unable to connect to server.
      Clicking on #1: "INFOHUB Train"
        Long list of links related to train travel.
        Clicking on "European Railways information - the MERCURIO server"
          Links related to european train travel.
          Clicking on "Links to European National Railways and Timetables".
    	Clicking on "EUR" link.
    	  Page in German.
    	  Clicking on "English" link.
    	    Clicking on "Current Timetable".
    	      And I'm back to the search page that I found earlier, which
    	      wouldn't give me fare information.  Maybe if I try a different
    	      date and time...
    	      Still no "pricing information".
    	      I'm giving up on this.  Call a travel agent.

  12. At another university in Glasgow, Scotland
    Visit: Muscat EuroFerret
    Select: "March most of the words" option
    Query:Paris Munich train fares
    Checked #1 (http://www.jena.de/tourism/verkanbe.htm)
    Went back to query box.
    Select: "Match all words" option
    Query: Paris Munich train
    Checked two pages of results. But no clicks.
    Selected: "Any-Country" WWW server results only
    Query: French railways
    Clicked #2 (http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/misc/link/frlink.html)
    Choose to click from the page the link to "The official SNCF
    WWW server" (http://www.sncf.fr/) Clicks on the British flag for English
    language version of the
    WWW page.
    Clicks on "Passenger" (http://www.sncf.fr/voy/indexe.htm) Clicks France and
    International: timetables, prices and services
    Clicks on "Timetables and Fares"
    Fills in the forms for "Leaving PARIS-75 on Friday 12 June 1998 at about
    Clicks on journey "1"
    Chooses to wish in "Double" and "2 Adult passengers"
    Chooses "Plein Tarif". Clicks on "Price"
    Answer: 2622 FF or 454 USD

  13. Elsewhere in Ottawa, Canada, using AltaVista ...
    ANSWER:		22:29	08:49	261-TRN	MUNICH	Arrives next day
    	Sleeper Fares
               Triple 2nd Cl	$58.00 to $78.00
               Sgl/Spl 1st Cl	$185.00 to $205.00
               Dbl 1st/2nd Cl	$84.00 to $104.00
    Queries:	14
    Links:		~30 
    Time:		40 minutes
    Query: train ticket sleeper "double occupancy" Paris Munich overnight
    	Nothing useful
    Query: train ticket sleeper "double occupancy" +Paris +Munich overnight
    Followed: "Munich getting there and getting around" 
    	Found out: travel time to Paris is 9 hours
    		"The Central Train Station ("Hauptbahnhof") is in
                   	the very center of the city."
    Query: "central train station" hauptbahnhof ticket sleeper "double occupancy" +Paris +Munich overnight
    	apparently bad hits
    Query: "central train station" hauptbahnhof 
    Followed: http://www.edgar-online.de/byplotr.htm  (broken link)
    Query: hauptbahnhof 
    	not city specific
    Query: hauptbahnhof munich
    	not specific enough
    Query: hauptbahnhof munich paris
    Followed: http://www.munich-online.de/portrait/p_hauptbahnhof_de.html
    	Somehow it seems it would be easier if I read German
    Query: same as last but English only
    Query: train munich paris
    Followed: http://www.ehi.com/travel/ehi/germany/munits.html
    	-> http://www.ehi.com/
    	-> http://www.ehi.com/europe.html
    	-> http://www.ehi.com/travel/ehi/france/france.html
    	-> http://www.ehi.com/travel/ehi/france/paris.html
    	-> http://www.ehi.com/travel/ehi/france/parits.html
    	Found fares from Munich to German cities and Vienna
    	Found fares from Paris to London, Amsterdam, Brussels and Geneva
    Back out to last query
    Followed: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/ringberg-castle/train.html (too specific train fares)
    Followed: (dead link)
    Query: train munich +paris
    	Strategy: not much mention of Paris
    Query: train munich paris schedule fare
    Followed:	http://unr.edu/homepage/ssa/europe.html
    		not specific enough
    Query: +train munich "double occupancy" paris
    	Strategy: need to learn more about the types of words to add
    	Scan the top 30 hits for related words
    A few clicks to follow hits to see if they were relevant (I didn't count them)
    Followed:	http://www.leo.org/muenchen/city/mvv/trains.html
    Followed:	http://www.munichfound.de/SITES/VisitorsGuide/GettingAround.html
    	-> http://www.munich-tourist.de/
    	-> http://www.munich-tourist.de/english/m.htm
    	-> http://www.munich-tourist.de/english/m4.htm
    Query: +train sleeper "double occupancy" paris
    	Not much about paris again
    Query: +train "double occupancy" +paris +munich +berlin +brussels
    Followed:	http://www.ricksteves.com/services/697fares.htm
    		Many city pairs first and second class fares, but not what we want
    Followed:	http://home.wxs.nl/~grijns/traintickets/eurptp.html
    		Many fares and travel times but not what we want
    	-> http://www.raileurope.com/us/
    	-> http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/rail_index.htm
    	-> http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/fares_schedules/rfs_intro.htm
    	-> Fill in form Paris->Munich in US dollars
                22:29	08:49	261-TRN	MUNICH	Arrives next day
    	Sleeper Fares
               Triple 2nd Cl	$58.00 to $78.00
               Sgl/Spl 1st Cl	$185.00 to $205.00
               Dbl 1st/2nd Cl	$84.00 to $104.00

  14. France
    Metacrawler: train ticket Paris Munich
    --> 29 results.
    --> 9th "Train & Subway Links" seems promising
    Page contains a long list of train schedule resources. My first choice
    is a broken link.
    The second: "Rail Europe" seems promising.
    This is a server giving all kinds of travel information for europe. I
    choose the second link "Rail":
    On this page I klick on "fares and schedules".
    This page contains a form where I enter Paris and Munich:
    Daily Train at 22:29 from Paris
    First class fare   $204.00
    Second class fare  $140.00
    Additional fee for douple sleeper:
    Second: $84 First: $104 
    So the result is 
    First: $308  Second: $224
    (5 minutes)

  15. Another searcher in France
    Used the french train reservation web site:
    http://www.sncf.fr and followed the link
    got the price 740 Frs (usd 127)

  16. Another Australian searcher...
    [8:40am Aus EST]
    Try an Excite search:
        -=> (item 5) "European Rail-Trains"
    	has the right sort of information, but not the right detail
    Try Excite "more like this":
        -=> "R A I L . O R G - Eurail Information"
    	Not much that's useful. Near the bottom:
    	-=> "Eurail Passes"
    	Ah. A link to
    	    -=> "search for your own point-to-point tickets."
    	    A form query: "Departure City/Arrival City". 
    	    That tells me from Paris to Munich, one-way is
    	    First Class:  $199.00, Second Class: $135.00.
    	    But what about overnight? Sleepers?
    	<=- Back
    	    -=> European Rail Maps [new window] -=> [idly inspect maps]
    	    -=> "Deutcshe Bahn"
    		-=> "Current Timetable" (new window)
    		    Forms interface: Enter Paris/Munich,
    		    -=> "Means of Transport"
    		    Select train connections only, direct sleepers only.
    			-=> "Search Connection"
    			    -=> "Order Tickets"
    			    Ooops. Need to select a trip.
    				-=> "Order Tickets"
    				Won't let me!
    				"19.06.98: Unfortunately, the time
    				remaining until the travel starting
    				isn't sufficient for a punctual
    				delivery of your tickets"
    		    Forms interface: Enter Paris/Munich, 30.06.98
    		    -=> "Means of Transport"
    		    Select train connections only, direct sleepers only.
    			-=> "Search Connection"
    			    -=> "Order Tickets"
    				-=> "Accept connection"
    		    Hmmph. They won't tell me how much the tickets
    		    cost without ordering with a credit card. No way!
    		-=> "Our homepage" German! -=> English
    		    -=> "International Guests"
    			[-=>...-=>] Takes me back to the useless
    			Current Timetable
    Try an Altavista power search "train and cost",
    ranked on "Paris Munich sleeper overnight":
        -=> " 1. Overnight accommodations on European Trains"
    	Ok. That tells me that the per person extra cost for
    	a double sleeper in a Central region trip is US$63--70,
    	plus a pass or (link:) 1st class ticket
    I guess, the cost will be about US$270 (1st class) or US$205
    (2nd class).
    [9:15am, Aus. EST]

  17. Saarbrucken, Germany 
    22 June 1998, 19:20-21:20 p.m.
    I decide not to check the German rail service bahn.hafas.de, since
    they don't give prices for international trains.
    Alta Vista: sncf Schlafwagen Paris Munchen prix couchette wagon-lit wagon-lits Preis
         - first ten results don't look promising
    Alta Vista: sleeper car Munich Paris
         - first ten results don't look good
    I resist the tempatation to ring up the train station
    I check the Swiss railroads (www.sbb.ch) because I believe them to be more international
       I follow the link to price and timetable information 
       I get timetables, but no prices
    I try the French railways (www.sncf.fr)
      - follow the link "voyages"
      - follow the link "horaries, prix, services ..."
      - I follow the link "Horaires et Prix"
      - I fill in the form 
      - I get a timetable listing, but no price.
        Then I notice the words "Choisissez votre train pour obtenir le prix" 
        and a tiny clickable "1" in front of the train connection, which I click
      - I fill in the next form, asking for a T2 with two persons and click 
        on the link "tous tarifs"
      - I fill in the next form, asking for "PLEIN TARIF" and click on the 
        link "Prix"
      - I get a price of 2622 FRF for two persons one way

National Institute of Standards and Technology Home
Last updated: Tuesday, 01-Aug-2000 07:03:52 MDT

Date created: Monday, 31-Jul-00